STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Ambassador Julianne Smith joins us. She served as the U.S. ambassador to NATO during the Biden administration and is now president at the consulting firm Clarion Strategies. Ambassador, good morning.
JULIANNE SMITH: Good morning.
INSKEEP: Does it matter that Marco Rubio doesn't show up at a NATO meeting?
SMITH: I think it does matter that the U.S. secretary of state is not present. It is common for the NATO alliance to accommodate often the schedule of the U.S. secretary of state to ensure that he or she can be in attendance. You can send your deputy. It is certainly common. We've seen that with other countries. But to not have the U.S. at the table at this critical moment when the key topic of conversation is Ukraine is not going to be a welcome sign among our European allies.
INSKEEP: Does it really mean the Europeans have been sidelined, even though they did get to change the peace proposal?
SMITH: Well, look, Ukraine has always been a NATO project. Even before the war started almost four years ago, the alliance was focused on preventing the war from starting. When it happened, every NATO meeting was focused on Ukraine. They are obviously concerned that they cannot get a direct readout from the United States on what happened in Moscow. The hope is that the deputy secretary of state, who will be there, Christopher Landau, will provide a readout. But what was common during the Biden administration when we sent an official to Moscow, as we did in the months leading up to the start of the war, that official would then make a stop in Brussels on the way home to provide all of the information that the allies were seeking on what transpired in that engagement. So I suspect there are some disappointed European allies on the other side of the Atlantic today.
INSKEEP: Judging by the public statements that we do have, how do you read the meeting in Moscow?
SMITH: I did not find it encouraging. It feels like "Groundhog Day." We have seen time and time again the Russians rejecting the ceasefire and the terms of some sort of negotiated settlement. We saw the Russians do this in the spring of this year. They had a 50-day deadline that came and went in July. And now, once again, in December, we are seeing a very cool reception by the Russians to this proposed peace plan. So it feels to me like we are not able to move the needle right now, and the middle ground that we so desperately need between Ukraine and Russia seems as far away as ever.
INSKEEP: I asked Eleanor about what seemed to be a mistaken assumption, the assumption that Russia is worried about losing so many people. Eleanor reports they don't seem actually that worried. But that leads to a follow-up question. Can you imagine any leverage the United States could use to push the Russians toward a settlement?
SMITH: Yes. I do believe that the United States could apply more pressure on Moscow to persuade President Putin to be far more open to negotiations and flexible in his negotiating position. I believe that the United States made a good start - the Trump administration made a good start by placing sanctions quite recently on Rosneft and Lukoil. I think more actions like that with perhaps the delivery of Tomahawks to Ukraine would capture Putin's attention and put him in a different mindset for these future negotiations. But right now, there is not an indication that the Trump administration is prepared or willing to apply that kind of pressure.
INSKEEP: There have been some news reports about carrots offered. We can do business together if only you resolve this war. Does that make sense?
SMITH: I think it makes sense from a Russian perspective. No doubt, they are very interested in opening up their economic relationship with the entire world, particularly the United States. They've been very isolated on the world stage since the war started. But I think it's going to take more than incentives. I do believe the United States has the power to apply pressure and should apply that now that we've seen this very lukewarm response on the part of the Russians.
INSKEEP: Julianne Smith was the U.S. Ambassador to NATO during the Biden administration. Ambassador, thanks so much.
SMITH: Thank you.
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