LEILA FADEL, HOST:
For more on all this, we turn now to Illinois senior Democratic senator and the Democratic whip Dick Durbin. Good morning, Senator. And thank you for being on the program.
DICK DURBIN: Good morning. Good to be with you.
FADEL: So it's Day 9 of the shutdown. Senator, is there a way out at this point?
DURBIN: There certainly is. And it's an obvious way out. And that is to have both sides sit down at the table immediately and find out ways, find ways to deal with the challenge that faces us. Millions of American families are going to see their health care costs double if Congress doesn't act immediately, and I think that has to be done. October 27 is the date for Illinois when they'll announce the new hospitalization premiums. On average, we expect those premiums to double, particularly for those people who are under the Affordable Care Act, healthcare.gov. And you think to yourself, well, who could they be? Twenty-five percent are farmers. Fifty percent of those who are small businesses. It's many, many families as well. So it's an issue that is becoming very real to a lot of people.
FADEL: I want to ask - I mean, the key thing you said there is people need to sit down and talk to each other. And what we seem to be seeing is real deadlock. Both parties, your party and the Republican Party, very dug in. Have you seen Republicans or the president showing any willingness to compromise and negotiate with your party and members of your party?
DURBIN: Well, first things first. I think the speaker of the House, Mr. Johnson, should call the Congress back to Washington. He has told them to stay home now for two straight weeks while we have been meeting here in Washington. That doesn't create an atmosphere of negotiation. I think I know exactly why he doesn't want them back. If they speak to one another among those in the Republican Caucus and talk about the impact that this health care cost increase is going to have on families, there's going to be some people that are going to break away from the party loyally - party loyalty. So I think that's the reason he's told them to stay home.
FADEL: Are you seeing your Republicans in the Senate breaking away from their party?
DURBIN: Not many. A few of them are talking, but nothing has materialized yet.
FADEL: In an interview with Punchbowl News, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said, quote, "every day gets better for us." Do you agree with that assessment? And if so, why?
DURBIN: Well, it's better in one respect. And I know what Chuck was saying. What we're finding is that overwhelmingly, voters agree that we should do something about these health care costs and do it immediately. Don't put it off for weeks or months, as Republicans suggest. But I certainly am sensitive to the impact of the government not functioning, too. That's something that unfortunately is part of this conversation.
FADEL: Now, the Republicans are branding this shutdown as something brought to you by the Democrats. We saw it on government websites. It's on the comment line when you call the White House. Is that working, blaming your party for this deadlock?
DURBIN: No, it isn't. And that's another reason Mr. Johnson doesn't want to call the House Republicans back in. The numbers are cratering for the Republicans on this issue. People across the board are saying do something about this cost, which is going to be dramatic if nothing is done. Families are struggling, you know, with groceries and utility bills, and health care costs are dramatically increasing in many states.
FADEL: I want to shift topics here because National Guard troops have now been deployed to a training facility just outside Chicago, the nation's third largest city in the state you represent. The president has also federalized 300 Illinois National Guard troops. What is your understanding of what comes next?
DURBIN: Well, I don't know what comes next because I've joined Senator Duckworth in repeatedly asking the Trump administration to explain to us what the purpose of this is and what they're achieving. They have refused to have any conversation. No accountability. And that troubles me greatly. I just say to people who are observing from the outside, as the president goes around saying that we have a terrible situation, a dangerous situation in Illinois, the leading business...
FADEL: Yeah, he's actually referred to it as a war zone.
DURBIN: Well, of course he does. He does that kind of hyperbole all the time. But I want to make it clear, the leading business organizations in Illinois have come out against sending in these National Guard troops. It is an image which is not good for business, not good for our future and doesn't reflect the reality on the ground. Yes, we have a crime rate, but virtually every city has some. But we've had dramatic increases - I should say, dramatic decreases in violent crime. And we're on the right track. It would be helpful if the Trump administration would continue to provide the resources to our police department and others who are working to reduce that crime rate.
FADEL: Now, the numbers back that up. Crime is down in Chicago. But yesterday on the Senate floor, you called the Trump administration's troop deployment, quote, "a threat to our republic and Constitution." What do you mean by that?
DURBIN: I hope that your listeners paid attention on September 30 with the South Shore apartment building raid that took place. That is hard to imagine, that that took place in America. Three hundred ICE officers in the middle of the night coming in on Black Hawk helicopters, ransacking, breaking down the doors of apartments, bringing the families out for interrogation. Kids with zip ties on their hands, holding them back. And it isn't as if this was some hellhole that they identified ahead of time. For the most part, they didn't know who was inside the building. They alleged afterwards, oh, it was gang activity, but no evidence whatsoever. That kind of experience, it doesn't sound like America to me. It doesn't sound like an agency that's following the Constitution or even cares about human dignity.
FADEL: You've also said that you would do anything to hold this administration accountable. I mean, how do you plan to do that? Because Republicans control the House, the Senate and the executive.
DURBIN: Well, it's going to be difficult. I know that. But I'll tell you, public sentiment is not on the side of the president. They realize that he is creating these scenarios in his mind that don't reflect the reality of the moment. Thank goodness many courts are stepping up. There's an important hearing in Chicago today. There was an important ruling yesterday that said, basically, these agencies, ICE and others have to follow the law. They're not doing so in many instances. And it's an outrage what they're doing to innocent families.
FADEL: That's Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois. Senator, thank you for your time.
DURBIN: Good to be with you.
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