SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The Illinois state government has been investigating the United States federal government, specifically a panel called the Illinois Accountability Commission has been conducting interviews and reviewing footage from last year's federal immigration enforcement crackdown in Chicago, known as Operation Midway Blitz.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: (Yelling) He's a citizen. He's a citizen.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: I just want my baby back. He's not an immigrant. He was born and raised in Chicago.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: And they pulled him by the - under the truck, put him in a chokehold and started repeatedly punching him in the face. You can see in the video he's struggling to breathe.
DETROW: That there was from a compilation of news reports and bystander video, juxtaposing Trump administration statements with clips of forceful arrests. It was shown on Monday as part of public hearings happening during this week ahead of a final report being due. The Illinois Accountability Commission was created by an executive order of Governor JB Pritzker. Governor Pritzker joins us now. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
JB PRITZKER: Glad to be with you, Scott.
DETROW: Today was the last day of the hearings, lots of video, lots of testimony, as we heard. What sticks with you?
PRITZKER: Well, you know, the testimony of the eyewitnesses, the people who experienced the onslaught of CBP and ICE in our streets was very powerful. We heard from Marimar Martinez, who was a young woman who was sitting in her car. She saw ICE and CBP doing things that she knew were wrong. You know, they were going after, tackling brown and Black people, people with accents, people who were U.S. citizens and here legally, people who hadn't broken any laws. And she started yelling and beeping her horn. And you know what they did? They shot her five times. And she wasn't the only one in Chicago. There was Silverio Villegas-Gonzalez, who was killed by ICE and CBP.
And this all happened before people paid attention in Minneapolis. We really had to develop a playbook to deal with this. And one of those items in our playbook was, everybody, pull out your phone. Take a video. When you see them doing something wrong, keep evidence. And then this accountability commission took that testimony and video, live testimony from people who were there, legal experts and so on. And this was led by a federal judge, a state senior judge. And they did deep dives into 16 different investigations. They interviewed 60 eyewitnesses. They reviewed over 100 hours of ICE and CBP body camera footage...
DETROW: Can I ask...
PRITZKER: ...Two hundred and fifty different videos, got lots of work done.
DETROW: What does accountability look like to you, though? What accountability is possible? Because these federal agents have broad immunity, if not the complete immunity that President Trump claims, what is accountability?
PRITZKER: I'm glad you asked because first of all, that evidence has already been used in federal court cases to limit ICE and CBP and what they can do on our streets. It also has been used to fight back against Donald Trump trying to deploy National Guard into our streets. Indeed, it was our attorney general who won the case at the Supreme Court that keeps National Guard from being deployed in any American city right now. So that's part of what's been done. That's an accountability item. The other, of course, is that these folks need to know that they may not be held accountable by this administration. They may not be held accountable by this Department of Homeland Security or CBP or ICE, Bovino, Homan, the rest of them. But they can be held accountable when those people are out of office, when there's a new administration or a new Congress.
DETROW: Do you think or worry that President Trump will issue broad pardons to ICE and border patrol agents before he leaves office?
PRITZKER: I think he's going to do that. The question is, can you really pardon the entire federal government? Can you really pardon all of CBP and ICE? Maybe he will. But also, people can be held civilly liable for their personal actions here. So they - look, what I want people to know is, if you're an ICE agent, a CBP agent, and you're on the streets of any American city, we're keeping track. And if you do something wrong now, you're going to be held accountable later. So think twice before you break the law.
DETROW: On that topic of later accountability, I'll just note - it's not the point of the question, but I'll just note you're mentioned in the conversation about people thinking of running for president in the next election. When a new administration comes in, what do you want to see the federal government do reviewing what happened in Chicago, what happened in Minneapolis, what happened elsewhere?
PRITZKER: Well, I think it would start with a change in the House of Representatives, a change in the Senate, which could happen as early as January of 2027. And that is with hearings. You know, this Republican Congress is unwilling to hold any hearings or ask any questions. It's one of the reasons why everybody's paying attention to our accountability commission, 'cause we're the only people who are asking those questions and taking a record. So I believe you're going to see that investigation begin in '27. I think it's appropriate. Look, we all should know what's happened. People should know across the country, even if they live in neighborhoods that haven't been under attack yet...
DETROW: But...
PRITZKER: ...Because this should never happen again.
DETROW: ...To that point, though, you know how partisan the environment is. You know how much AI and other factors are just making up facts right now. You know that a lot of people are going to see this report and say, that's a report that came from a Democratic governor, a partisan actor, and therefore, I'm not going to read it, I'm not going to believe what I heard from it. How do you get information to break through in this environment?
PRITZKER: Well, first, we had testimony from Republicans at this commission, so it isn't some sort of partisan endeavor. We had the leader of the Republicans in the House of Representatives. He's now retired, but he came back in order to appear before the commission. He talked about free and fair elections and the problem of deploying people who are wearing uniforms and masks and automatic weapons and doing that in and around an election, which I believe is going to happen in November. And he warned us against that. And you've seen Republicans stand up against this administration. I do not believe that standing up for democracy has to be some partisan endeavor.
DETROW: You just mentioned your concerns about the November election. I'm curious what you have learned from this commission, what you will take going forward about how state government, how local government can react if there's a strong federal presence again in November or another time.
PRITZKER: OK, well, I think everybody needs to understand that the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution does allow the federal government to have their laws are supreme over state laws. Having said that, there are ways for states to stand up and push back. I'll give you an example. I believe that in the November elections, you're going to see - in state after state, you're going to see democratic governors deploying people to protect polling places, to make sure that even if there are people wearing uniforms, ICE and CBP standing around near polling places, that we're going to be able to escort people into the polling places. We're going to be able to communicate with people to make sure that they know that what ICE and CBP are doing is simply designed to scare you and that it's your opportunity at this moment to stand up for democracy, to do the right thing. This may be the toughest moment, but it is the most crucial moment for people to get out and vote.
DETROW: We've only got a little bit of time left, but you're talking about state authorities perhaps confronting federal authorities outside polling stations. Is that a scenario you're talking about?
PRITZKER: It's very important to recognize that we're not talking about confrontations with any kind of weapons or anything like that. We are talking about peaceful protest. We are talking about - remember, these elections - all across the country, elections are controlled by the states. And I have always advocated that we, first of all, keep it at the state level. I know Trump would like to federalize elections so that he can take control. But I...
DETROW: Governor, I'm going to hop in there just 'cause we're only running out of time, but I really appreciate the conversation. That's Illinois Governor JB Pritzker. Thank you so much for joining us.
PRITZKER: Thanks, Scott.
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